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The Mombasa Massacre *MOVIE*
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HighHat314

Joined: 14 Apr 2005
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
notSiD wrote:
I had a totally diffrent view form you, although i still say it was complex, but i say 2 peacefull countries do not go out into an all out war because they killed just one person because tehy are at peace, the fact that they where monitoring the area at the biggining tells me that they where already at eachothers throats and just needed a small reason to go out into an all out war, like i specified earlier(similiar to the Cold War) and the yellow team being sneaky and sly decided this as a perfect oppurtunity and it worked out int ehir favor.


I didn't quite see them as countries, in fact, they weren't countries, they were two groups living in the same area.

I wonder if we can think of some current day events that reflect this. Does Al Quaida (Yellow), Sunnis and Shiites (white and black) ring a bell? If you don't understand the relationship, here's some facts.

Sunnis and Shiites are the two current majority groups in Iraq. Both are trying to model the nation's democracy after their own views. They clash, but they attempt to remain peaceful at heart. Al Quaida, on the other hand, wants things their own way, and the best way they can get rid of any naysayers with the least amount of casualties on their part is to have them all kill each other. Makes sense, doesn't it? Sick, but it makes sense. Try to relate that to the plot in this story, and you'll see just how valid and deep the film's plot really is.

Perhaps I'm seeing it on a different level than you are. Nonetheless, the theme is still as strong. Regardless of how unlikely it is, it can happen at any time. The Crucible is just one example. The conflict of democracy in Iraq, where Sunni and Shiite Muslims are barely stable for power among Al Quaida terrorists trying to get them to incite civil war, is just one example.

I don't know if that makes sense to any of you, but both of those are valid examples.

I can't say I saw them monitoring, or at least monitoring in a hostile manner, in the beginning either. The sheer peaceful mood, set by the music and the closeness of both groups in the beginning, as well as the absence of weapons, something which signified violence throughout the whole film, were all present. I can't see why it would look like they were already in tense terms to you.

On the unlikelyhood of two nations going at it over one death, yes, it's unlikely, even among small groups like these, but it's still just as strong. That example alone shows how quickly humans -can-, not will, not likely will, but can jump to passionate vengenace.
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notSiD

Joined: 25 Oct 2005
Location: Las Cruces, New Mexico

PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
no, i was using the countries thing as a metaphor for similarities, i kno wthey where to teams living in the same area...

but i saw the crucible as more mass hysteria than anything else...

but that last thing you said reminded me of World War I, it started out with the assanination of one person(forget his name but he was a duke) and thorugh scaling events turned into World War I and that turned into World War II, through the death of one person, i guess i can see your point of view, but again in those situations those countries also didn't like eachother, and becuase they where on non-fighting terms, but not quite peaceful, and they where really just looking for an excuse to fight eachother.
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HighHat314

Joined: 14 Apr 2005
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
notSiD wrote:
no, i was using the countries thing as a metaphor for similarities, i kno wthey where to teams living in the same area...

but i saw the crucible as more mass hysteria than anything else...

but that last thing you said reminded me of World War I, it started out with the assanination of one person(forget his name but he was a duke) and thorugh scaling events turned into World War I and that turned into World War II, through the death of one person, i guess i can see your point of view, but again in those situations those countries also didn't like eachother, and becuase they where on non-fighting terms, but not quite peaceful, and they where really just looking for an excuse to fight eachother.


I can understand that tension, but what strikes me about both sides in this film as being peaceful is simply the mood that is set in the very beginning. If you're referring to, say, how the yellow spartan who was disguised as the white spartan shot a camera monitor, of course, there are certain security measures taken by either side, and in that case it was the black team. In every case of two peaceful coexisting groups, there is some sort of security measures.

Yes, it's unlikely, unrealistic for two groups to go at it after one death, but I don't think this is supposed to be a realistic film. A lot of great works of literature and film aren't meant to be realistic, and The Crucible is one of them, among many other romantic writings (as in, romanticism, not as in a romantic love novel. if you don't know the difference, I can't explain it to you, not yet anyway. I've only just begun to learn about romanticism in my english class).

But yes, to conclude, this film, in my view, isn't supposed to be entirely realistic. It is because of this that I feel the story hits as deeply as it does.
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notSiD

Joined: 25 Oct 2005
Location: Las Cruces, New Mexico

PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
yea...you know i think the best thing to do would be to hear the plot form the creators, We might just be breathing to much air into this babe. It doesn't matter how we interpret it but how the creators wanted it to be interpreted as... so i think we need to hear it form them for this

P.S.ya know i was serious when i said that World War II, and World war ! started because of the assanitaion of a Duke. but not my point.
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Ralph the Wonder Llama

Joined: 14 Feb 2006
Location: www.clantrickthis.com

PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
lol...guys let's not try to start a fight here. I really want to keep this topic running. I was the basic plot writer. I'm not saying I made the scenes, just the plot. I just thought that we could use a good deep plot with some betrayl and setting up, because that always brightens up a plot. I understand if comrad didn't like it. It's his opinion, maybe he did get a bit confused I tried to explain it as best as I can. Also, I was sorta...a bit going off of Chaos on the Creek. Which if you've seen, the white and steel team decide, hey let's be friends. Althought this isn't continuing the story from it.

Here is what happened

White and Steel team lived in a city, peacefully, not at war, BUT they did not like eachother. Basically a "You don't like me and I SURE as hell don't like you, but we gotta live together". The White team got control of one area and steel got control of the other. Now imagine a country border, the countries do not like eachother. A lot of tension would be brought in a military city with both armies in the city. A little slip such as that would give a team a reason to start a war. It's like Korea. With their nuclear program up and running, our country is not at peace, but not at war. Now imagine if they bombed New York. We would be mad and retaliate. Starting a huge war. The Gold Team, which is to small and weak to fight both Steel and White team, would be crazy to attack to military forces at once. I'm taking this from a crappy movie called the Sum of all Fears and changing it around. But it's like Hitler, people called him crazy, because he tried to start a war with Russia and America. You don't fight them yourselves, you get them to fight eachother. The Gold got steel and white to fight eachother until they were basically gone, then took over.

I'm sorry to anyone who thought a perfect strategic plan like getting two armies that already hate eachother to fight themselves instead of fighting them yourselve, isn't deep enough to satisfy your needs. I guess I must be dumb to take a plot from a high grossing film, change the ideas and setting up and have a great filmer throw in an absurd amount of action...
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comradx

Joined: 23 Jan 2005
Location: R.I.P. LTL ELITE & Hot LilMikes

PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
you guys are overanalyzing the plot elements and making it seem complex when it wasnt at all. dont give jamie credit for the plot when he has to ask hypothetical questions about what may or may not have occurred in teh past to make the tesnsions so high.

i can go and say bill and ted's excellent adventures incorprates a very elaborate and philosophical theme and plot elements, yet doesnt portray them at all. the entire point of a theme is to get the audience involved with it and this showed no effort in that regard at all. "oh dont worry its got an AMAZING story/theme...we just didnt feel like showing it to the audience"...see how ludicrous that sounds? stop grasping at straws high hat. the theme/story isnt presented even if you force yourself to create it in your imagination.
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HighHat314

Joined: 14 Apr 2005
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
comradx wrote:
stop grasping at straws high hat. the theme/story isnt presented even if you force yourself to create it in your imagination.


I don't understand.

Are you accusing me of being obsessive or just lying altogether about my opinion?
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comradx

Joined: 23 Jan 2005
Location: R.I.P. LTL ELITE & Hot LilMikes

PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
you overanalyze this work. never said you are lying. there is no presented theme at all. show me where it is presented and debate taht point. but stop acting like its an obvious inclusion of this film. its not at all.
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notSiD

Joined: 25 Oct 2005
Location: Las Cruces, New Mexico

PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
[quote="comradx"]you guys are overanalyzing the plot elements and making it seem complex when it wasnt at all. dont give jamie credit for the plot when he has to ask hypothetical questions about what may or may not have occurred in teh past to make the tesnsions so high.

i can go and say bill and ted's excellent adventures incorprates a very elaborate and philosophical theme and plot elements, yet doesnt portray them at all. the entire point of a theme is to get the audience involved with it and this showed no effort in that regard at all. "oh dont worry its got an AMAZING story/theme...we just didnt feel like showing it to the audience"...see how ludicrous that sounds? stop grasping at straws high hat. the theme/story isnt presented even if you force yourself to create it in your imagination.[/quote]

they did show it though, it's called the Mombassa Masacre, they did a very, very good job of portraying using only a game and no dialogue, and trust me when i say that this had more plot than most halo vids that are out there
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HighHat314

Joined: 14 Apr 2005
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
comradx wrote:
you overanalyze this work. never said you are lying. there is no presented theme at all. show me where it is presented and debate taht point. but stop acting like its an obvious inclusion of this film. its not at all.


I never have said it's obvious, I just said that I've been surprised that you didn't see it. Clearly, after citing the numerous examples that I have, as in, comparisons of this story to that of others, I must have felt a close relation of this film's plot to reality. If you haven't, that's fine, I'm just surprised. There's nothing wrong with that.

As for showing where it's presented, I already have. I state in more than one post that the themes of selfishness, deception, and revenge are represented. I really don't want to bother being specific, but we can debate it if you'd like.
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Ralph the Wonder Llama

Joined: 14 Feb 2006
Location: www.clantrickthis.com

PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
HighHat314 wrote:
comradx wrote:
you overanalyze this work. never said you are lying. there is no presented theme at all. show me where it is presented and debate taht point. but stop acting like its an obvious inclusion of this film. its not at all.


I never have said it's obvious, I just said that I've been surprised that you didn't see it. Clearly, after citing the numerous examples that I have, as in, comparisons of this story to that of others, I must have felt a close relation of this film's plot to reality. If you haven't, that's fine, I'm just surprised. There's nothing wrong with that.

As for showing where it's presented, I already have. I state in more than one post that the themes of selfishness, deception, and revenge are represented. I really don't want to bother being specific, but we can debate it if you'd like.



If someone get's this closed, I'm popping heads open...
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FreeKi11

Joined: 09 Oct 2005
Location: PA

PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 11:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I dont know why but i was bored and i could not get your movie out of my head so i wanted to send it to a frined but he could not download it so i sent him pics of the best parts of the movie and i got the idea to make wall papers with them here is a pic of the wallpaper


Download
Links and sizes
800/600
1024/768
1152/864
1280/720
1280/768
1280/960
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HighHat314

Joined: 14 Apr 2005
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'm sorry Ralph. I didn't mean to upset you or anyone else. I don't think this will be locked though.

Comradx and I are keeping this generally to instant messenging, but otherwise it should be a simple debate, nothing to close a topic over. I mean, it's not like we're mudslinging or anything, lol, we just disagree on the credibility of the film itself, don't worry about it.
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comradx

Joined: 23 Jan 2005
Location: R.I.P. LTL ELITE & Hot LilMikes

PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
dont worry bout ralph. he thinks everything i post is grounds for a thread lock, lol.

freekill, thats a sweet wallpaper from what i hear, but i can onyl see red x's. try posting it again please. Smile
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comradx

Joined: 23 Jan 2005
Location: R.I.P. LTL ELITE & Hot LilMikes

PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 12:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
notSiD wrote:


they did show it though, it's called the Mombassa Masacre, they did a very, very good job of portraying using only a game and no dialogue, and trust me when i say that this had more plot than most halo vids that are out there


trust you? why the hell would i care what you think on the subject? im more than capable of forming my own opinion thank you and no matter what you guys claim, there isnt any obvious symbolism with anything here. symbolism is a requirement of a healthy theme, especially when you dont use dialogue.

btw, most halo vids are absolutely horrible in all aspects. saying this was better is hardly tipping yer cap to the creators. a name alone means nothing, especially one so cliche as this one. there is zero symbolism here that is obvious from any vantage point to accredit itself as contributing to any thematic storytelling. its only as deep as you make up for yourselves. the exact same can be done with literally ANY film ever made.
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HighHat314

Joined: 14 Apr 2005
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 12:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
comradx wrote:
notSiD wrote:


they did show it though, it's called the Mombassa Masacre, they did a very, very good job of portraying using only a game and no dialogue, and trust me when i say that this had more plot than most halo vids that are out there


trust you? why the hell would i care what you think on the subject? im more than capable of forming my own opinion thank you and no matter what you guys claim, there isnt any obvious symbolism with anything here. symbolism is a requirement of a healthy theme, especially when you dont use dialogue.

btw, most halo vids are absolutely horrible in all aspects. saying this was better is hardly tipping yer cap to the creators. a name alone means nothing, especially one so cliche as this one. there is zero symbolism here that is obvious from any vantage point to accredit itself as contributing to any thematic storytelling. its only as deep as you make up for yourselves. the exact same can be done with literally ANY film ever made.


When has a requirement of symbolism been to be obvious?

I also find you contradicting yourself when you note that you're capable of forming your own opinion and then state it as fact. We're as much capable of forming our own opinion as you are, but, as far as I'm concerned, I've never made it unclear that anything I've stated has been nothing but my opinion. Surely I've made claims, comparisons and citations to try and prove my opinion, but that's simply to let you understand why I feel the way I do.

All you've done so far is said that there is a lack of this or that. I can't say that I recall you really backing it up. To top it off, as I've said, you're making it really sound as if it's supposed to be fact.

I said to you before on AIM that what matters is what goes on in your head, not what goes on in anyone else's head. Trying to say to us that your thoughts are fact, not only when you haven't got any connection with the creation of the film, but when you, like any of us, are another reviewer, really begins to sound more like blatant propaganda. Perhaps that's not the right word, but it seems to me that you're set to have most people agree with you, seeing as you keep stating the same things without much substance to hold it.

What you have stated has always been general. Of course we can make these comparisons with any other work of literature or film; that's why it's not difficult to understand the depth of a plot. If we weren't able to make any rational comparisons to other things, be it another person's work, or our own anecdotes from life, we wouldn't get very far in applying the film itself to life themes. This is why I feel the film has a theme, because it posesses characteristics similar to other stories, life or otherwise.

Simply because I can do this with any other film doesn't make this one any less substantial or credible. To top it off, the comparison's I've made -are- all credible, considering that, I don't know, they're taught in regular and higher level literary classes.

It's difficult for me to stray from this, or see from your point of view, when I already understand it but see it in a totally different light. Perhaps you're concerned that the credit is going to the creators for all of this discussion, hell, I have no idea what you think, but you must have some motive for deducing this film as you have, citing many times that the essense of plot structure and theme are held together by symbolism, and not just any, but that which is intentional and tangible.

I suppose I disagree because I see -all- of these things as intangible.
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notSiD

Joined: 25 Oct 2005
Location: Las Cruces, New Mexico

PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 1:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Oh God, where getting into philosophy...

yes you are capable of forming your own opinion, but what your doing is make your opinion absolute, and not even caring what we have to say, it's callled, "Stubborn" Ralph already gave his plot, we had analyzed it, and for the most part, we where right in some aspects, so we wern't just making it up. Do you understand that much? here's an algebraic formula...

Our idea on plot=Ralph Plot(now you should understand)

so then understand that what we said wasn't "made up" it was facts, backed up facts, you offer no proof for your claims, our proof is that we pointed out the scenes and analyzed them.(i thought we where over anylizing at first too, but then Ralph posted with the plot, and our ideas matched, thus it wasn't us over anylizing, it was us being smart about it.)

yes you could put a deep plot on anything, but without the creators actual plot it's just theory, if you still don't understand then your more stubborn than i thought.

btw, When you said that most halo vids are absolutely horrible in every aspect, you made funny of 90% of the people on these forums, and why are you here if you think their all crap? and hey, a complement is a complement, it doesn't matter how you take the complement, it's not yours, so let them have it.


Last edited by notSiD on Mon Mar 06, 2006 1:05 am; edited 1 time in total
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comradx

Joined: 23 Jan 2005
Location: R.I.P. LTL ELITE & Hot LilMikes

PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 1:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Its always obvious. Otherwise its meaningless. The meaning ma ynot be obvious, but the item or object ALWAYS is. And im not only stating my opinion. Im telling you how it is as a FACT determined by literary authorities. You really are just making up random symbolism that is NOT implied NOR holds any significance and pretending as if it was presented in the film. You gave me the weapons as symbolic for violence. Yet NEVER were any weapons made to stand out in any fashion in this film. No gun was portrayed as being more important than anything else in any way, shape, or form. The problem isnít that you are capable of forming your own opinions, its that you are obviously quite capable of making up themes and symbolism that doesnít exist as well. You can have your opinions, but donít be foolish and base them on some theme you created in your head without prompt.


Your comparisons are poor at best man. Seriously, gun do not equal deep symbolism for anything here. Just b/c you say its deep and thematic and then make up your own theme and symbolism doesnít mean you are supporting your opinions with anything worthwhile.

I have nothing but substance. YOU are the ones making up themes and symbolism that the creators NEVER presented to the audience at all!

Quote:
What you have stated has always been general. Of course we can make these comparisons with any other work of literature or film; that's why it's not difficult to understand the depth of a plot. If we weren't able to make any rational comparisons to other things, be it another person's work, or our own anecdotes from life, we wouldn't get very far in applying the film itself to life themes. This is why I feel the film has a theme, because it posesses characteristics similar to other stories, life or otherwise.


Such as?


I can make up random themes for other vids too. Doesnít make the creators worthy of praise for such depth and forethought. Take this vid to your literature teacher at any level and ask for them to name the theme. They wont find anything.


What is the theme high hat? Give me several examples of symbolism and include multiple scenes for each showcasing the obviousness of these important items/chars/or objects that make them significant. You cant. They donít exist. If there was a deep theme, the creators themselves would have piped up by now and discussed it. Instead, they are taken aback and lie on their heels in surprise that someone is randomly making their excuse for an action scene into something with depth. They arenít likely to tell you you are wrong for very obvious reasons, but nevertheless, you cant show anyone any meanginful evidence such symbolism exists, nor is it presented to the audience at all.
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comradx

Joined: 23 Jan 2005
Location: R.I.P. LTL ELITE & Hot LilMikes

PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 1:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
But it's like Hitler, people called him crazy, because he tried to start a war with Russia and America. You don't fight them yourselves, you get them to fight eachother.


what the hell kinda history class did you take in high school kid? lol! splitting forces between the russians and americans et al are why hitler lost the damn war. russia and usa didnt fight each otehr when hitler was around.

notsid,

will you guys take a smidgen of time outta yer lives and READ what ralph said? he said exactly what i outlined earlier. 2 sides live together in great tension, a 3rd party frames one side to start a war, a war arrupts, then the asshats who started the war inherit the threshold. there is no subplots or themes to this AT ALL.

no hint of char development, or plot deveolpment, or motives from any of teh chars/sides, nor any symbolism at all. go watch XPHYER's stuff for good story and theme development. but this has none of that. its not an opinion, its a fact and ANY literary professor will tell you so. this is only about action sequences for the most aprt and nothing else. im telling you its good at pleasing the adolescent audience, but for the more intelligently-driven-plot guys in teh crowd, it has no substance.

that so called 'plot' has literally 4 or 5 lines worth of a detailed description. deep isnt a word to describe such a tale. sorry. but so far all you 2 have done is say its deep and make up yer own phantom ideas about what magic symbolism is in the film to give it thematical traits. these dont exist ANYWHERE adn you havnet been abel to show me otherwise. stop whining about what i say and prove it wrong by pointing out char dev'ment, plot dev'ment, mutliple levels of symbolism, and an explicit theme outline.
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masterchief=samusaran

Joined: 05 Jan 2005
Location: Delta Halo

PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 2:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
wholly shlomoley!
10/10
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notSiD

Joined: 25 Oct 2005
Location: Las Cruces, New Mexico

PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 3:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
you wanted it so here it is... correct me if i'm wrong Jamie please.

the calm music and walking of everyone gave a serene invironment to make it feel like it was a normal day. the guy that's watching them pass seems like a normal guy just watching them go by. then a total contrast music out of nowhere appears. completely turning the whole peacefullness of the setting which you created. now in the camera you don't actually see him shoot them, but just see him fire shots. and then the camera. the reason he shot the camera is because he wanted them to feel like it really was the whites firing at the blacks. i think their is an easter egg in your video on the other screen, is that like a show or somthing?? anyways, the two guys who witness it run ouside to see what had happened and they see two of their members dead on the floor. then they look at eachother and are like, OMG, those bisonskie. this is where you know that the tension between them was obviously high, because of the fact that they looked at eachother, and catagorized them as a whole group, not just a white guy having beef with these two black guys. when the guy walks away he turns back to a yellow guy(like he was disguised as a white guy) and it's obvious that they are planning something. now they prepare to atttack back, and they all arm themselves, this is further proof that the tension between them was extremely high, because they all decided that the apropriate form of action was to attack, and fast. the next scene it shows is a bunch of the black guys armed and a bunch of white guys that come and are unarmed, this tells me that the white guys have no idea what's going on whatsoever, because they don't even try to run(until they start getting shot) one guy gets away and tells everyone what had just happened, his bloody leg offers proof of his words, and then they decide that they are attacking, so they arms themselves as fast as they can, then it brakes out into an all out war between these two sides, the music playing in the background is more of an awe thing and just adds to the dramtic scene you were trying to create, along with the chaoticness, it works very well, (the guys moving in the back of this scene really add to the choas) it then shows two black guys getting into a warthog and basically going on a suicidal mission into their base(i'm probably wrong here, but, what i got was that at this point they are actually willing to give up their lives for their victory.) but what i think it could also mean they they started completely owning the whites. the warthog finishes it's spree of death, and inbetween is that kool tank scene.(where the whites get owned) the warthog scene was pretty long and if you don't pay attention you don't realize that that was all one hog. then the next thing it shows is a white guy falling in slo-motion, this tells me that the whites are losing at this point in the war. but the whites just fight back even harder. when the white tank takes out the guys near the boxes, he hesitates to shoot because the tank realizes that the black guy is no threat, but then shows no mercy by shooting him as he runs away. then shoots the dead body on the floor, out of pure anger and revenge. it's hard to notice but you changed the music almost as if the whites where losing, at first it tells me that the whites are fighting a lost cause but then it starts to show the travesties of this war, and the amount of death that it has created. then the great warthog finally falls. then it shows the white and black person with the camera spinning. that the whites where actually coming back from this losing war. but right when it seems they have a chance, the blacks attack from the behind and the whites suffer great losses, and once again the whites are losing this battle. one of the whites finally realize that there chances of victory are at low to none. so as the last resort this white guy activates this "atomic bomb" i'm assuming, the two opposing teams don't bother to fightt eachothehr because they know that they are both dead.(instead they stare at the bomb that is going to kill everybody) and that this final resort took both of the teams down in a suicidal attack. the broken defualt symbol tells me that this attack really did destroy everything and everybody. then going through the buliding, there are still 2 survivors in this war. as they walk you can see a bunch of debree on fire and dead bodies adding to the affect of the aftermath of the war. the music is dramatically scaling. because these survivors are walking towards eachother and the end of this bloody war will finally end. then they put their guns down, and it makes you feel secure as they finally resolved their conflict and realized how pointess this war had been. but like a twist, because by this point the viewer has completely forgotten about the "yellow team" shoots the 2 survivors and you realize that this was all a plan to destroy these apposing teams. and it fits sooo well with the music too! the slo-motion at the end of the story and them walking through the already put out debree, which tells me that this war has finally ended, with that easy going music, it eases the aauidience and tells them it's finally over. thus the yellow team being super sneaky achieved victory over these two teams that clearly had power over them.

that is what i got from your film, and because there is no dialogue it is all symbolism. and if you say that, that^ is not plot, then you are just lying to yourself. and i say they did an amazing job for using only scenes, no body language or facial expressions(because their isn't, it's a game)

great job that's why i gave this film a 10/10 never done that before.
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DrySquirrel

Joined: 28 Mar 2005
Location: Finland

PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Shocked

10/10 ANY DAY!!!
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HighHat314

Joined: 14 Apr 2005
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
comradx, I did speak to my English teacher today. Considering what you said, you're right, symbolism is intended to be obvious and the meaning not so much so. I appologize if I stated otherwise.

At the same time, consider that I only stated one, agreeably meaningless example of symbolism because you asked me to. I never found symbolism to be at all crucial to creating a theme. True, I made up this symbolism, but I made it up long before we even discussed it. The reason I did this was because I was under the assumption that symbolism was an implication, not a statement. I was wrong, and for that I appologize for creating so much chaos.

However, I also asked my literary teacher if symbolism was a necessity for establishing a theme, or even a deep, meaningful theme, and, as I have been believing from the start, symbolism isn't required. My teacher stated, and I quote, "Symbolism can add depth to a theme. It doesn't necessarily define it. It -can-, but it isn't always the case."

I can understand if it seemed as if I felt symbolism was important in this case, but I never have. The only reason I ever brought it to debate was because you asked me to show you an example. If you read my posts, I never actually defend the notion that symbolism is important, rather, I argue the exact opposite at least once. In a more general tone, I don't even go in depth about whether or not symbolism is important, all I ever did was give you what I thought was a valid example.

As far as discussing the themes is concerned, I don't think it's possible for any story or plot to be written without some sort of theme. Sure, the writer might not verbally acknowledge it, but it's clearly there. In this case, although the plot is deceptively simple, vague even, the theme is defined.

If you can name a story or plot that doesn't posess any sort of theme, be it irony, death, rebirth, truth, lies, anger, love, frustration, human nature, or any other theme, I'll more than likely concede. Be warned though; any story, complex or simple, be it Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure (satire, mockery) or Barney and Friends (cooperation, peace), is written with a theme.

In the case of this film, I see two or three defining themes. When I consider ways to represent them, I begin to see why you might not like how they were presented, however vaguley or in lack of detail. I feel it's probably because most of the film was covered by the theme of vengeance, told in, what you seem to have some problem herein, violent action for the majority of the film. It was pretty well done though, yeah? =D

The themes I find evident in this film are deception, self-destruction, and vengeance. I suppose I should go through them one by one.

Mind you, I'm only doing this because I can agree with your statement that the plot is simple. Originally it seemed as though you felt it was nonexistent, and now it seems you can't even find a theme that's existent.

Theme number 1: deception.

It's quite clear from the moment that the yellow team reveals themselves that they've tricked the white and steel team to fight with each other. In such a dirty, foul, and ultimately selfish trick, the yellow team manages to get both teams to sacrafice their dignity for vengeance, and what for? Neither side suspects that the yellow team even exists, let alone is at fault. The entire time, both sides are dead set on removing the other, tired of the long held stand-off between them.

This is where I cited an example of present day themes of vengeance and deception, such as the current situation in Iraq. I ask you, how can that not be a valid citation? Is it not the same concept? Two majority groups, living in the same area, an area long since fought over but held together by some shanty peace, while a third party decides to trick the two of them into civil war.

Al Quaida officers disguised as Sunni police officers recently destroyed a Shiite mosque, killing many and completely ruining a landmark hand crafted by Muhammed himself. This blow, as commonplace as it might seem to some, will, and cannot be forgiven by Shiite followers, and Al Quaida may very well get just what they want; their own rule. Interrupting the "peace" at hand is all they had to do in order to get both Shiite and Sunni followers at each other's throats.

Now, regardless as to the comparison of an event so drastic to one so minimal as a fictional event, the idea I've been stating from the start is that this is of course something which isn't supposed to be realistic. One of the very things that define a romantic piece of literature is that the plot and story are unlikely and inconceivable, but the theme is very real. As you've seen, I've made two references to romantic literature with themes similar to the ones presented in this film already. One of these books (The Scarlet Letter) posesses vast examples of symbolism as you asked for, comrad. Arthur Miller's The Crucible on the other hand, is nearly devoid of it, but the theme of irony and deception is -very- much alive.

Theme number 2: vengeance.

This theme, along with the third, self-destruction, is probably the one that was most covered throughout the film's running time. 90% or more of the film was spent covering the massive battle which ensued as a result of the aforementioned deception. You seem to have a particular difficulty accepting the fact that an action movie has any real substance in its own right. I say, if it's art, it's art. The action portrayed, in machinima in particular, was some of the best choreography and use of the game engine I've ever seen. The cinematography left my mouth open. Sure, there were some dry shots as you mentioned, but that did nothing to detract from the overall focus of the scenes.

Throughout this entire time, we see multiple, presumably hundreds of these individual fighters killing, maiming, doing whatever they can to spill their enemy's blood. Again, I was particularly impressed with how alive all of the characters seemed. At almost no time did they move stiffly or unrealistically. I believed throughout the entire time that these were real people, brought together in anger and enragement, seeking revenge.

This is probably the simplest theme I saw throughout the film.

Theme number 3: self-destruction.

Despite the obvious desperation and effort put in by both sides to destroy the other, it's obvious later on in the film that it's a stalemate. Every time one man on a certain team was killed, another was killed on the opposite. All of their creations and strucutres were bombarded, their civilization, so long held at peace, brought to rubble for what? What they presume was an attack against them by the other, though it was in fact deception? Even at the end of the film, we see that the last two remaining see the utter cataclysm brought on as a result of their pitiful anger. What point is there to destroy when there's nothing left? In the greatest sense, they destroyed themselves, and what's worse, because someone tricked them into doing it.

===============================================

As for the literally numerous other themes that could be applied to this film (death, violence, anger, hatred, some sort of pseudo racism); of course they can be applied to it: they're written all over the film, some more than others. I chose the three I did because I felt that they were the most central to the film's purpose.

That's all I'm going to say on this matter. What I expect is that you'll call me out for overanalyzing, but hey, you asked me to analyze. Unless you want to tell me I'm pulling this out of my ass just to prove you wrong, I think it's best that we just agree to disagree. You ought to know which of the two is more sensible.

Either way, I'm done telling my side. All of these themes are themes I felt and recognized immediately after watching the film. I didn't create these for you, these were there beforehand.

As I've said, a theme isn't required to be acknowledged by a writer just for it to exist. A theme, unlike a symbol, isn't created by the writer intentionally. A theme is what a writer builds his story around. A theme is a feeling, an idea, and what fuels creation of these stories if not feelings and ideas? A five year old could create a story about how he lost his dog and found it, and the theme could be devotion, or friendship, or suspense if he does something like look for it all over his neighborhood, but I digress.

Regardless of what Jamie or Beardless say, regardless of what you've told me, I've done my homework, and I'm satisfied. I've spoken to a qualified literary scholar, I've admitted my wrong concerning symbolism, I've given you everything else you asked for, and I don't feel at all sheepish about it, because I know I'm not making up what I felt. I could've gone out on a limb and said the theme was environmentalism, but there wouldn't be much to support there.

Oh, and one other thing, you basically proved my point about you worrying that I'm giving credit to the creators for the themes in the film.

Last time I'm saying this; they made a film which impressed me, and I've given every reason to be impressed righteously and logically. Impression, good or bad, in it's own right, is something credible; what a good or bad impression and responses to those impressions say is that the person impressed actually cares about the work done. This is all I'm giving to Jamie and Beardless, whether they intended to get me to see it in the way I have or not; the fact of the matter is I have seen it in this manner. I do care about how it was done. If that doesn't say something about their ability to capture an audience, I don't know what does.

I've said before, you know I'm not someone easily impressed by flashy effects with a simple story. However, -this- simple story, has enlightened me with its themes, and I am impressed with their portrayal.


Last edited by HighHat314 on Mon Mar 06, 2006 6:36 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Ralph the Wonder Llama

Joined: 14 Feb 2006
Location: www.clantrickthis.com

PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
comradx wrote:
Quote:
But it's like Hitler, people called him crazy, because he tried to start a war with Russia and America. You don't fight them yourselves, you get them to fight eachother.


what the hell kinda history class did you take in high school kid? lol! splitting forces between the russians and americans et al are why hitler lost the damn war. russia and usa didnt fight each otehr when hitler was around.


I was saying that Hitler tried to fight Russia, America and Great Britain at once. Don't you think that was stupid. Fighting the 3 most powerful forces around? Hitler never tried to get Russia and America to fight, but what if he did? Wouldn't that be a great war technique. That's what we tried potray.

I'm sorry that I made up a bad plot and didn't even show it or symbolize it at all...then again a white guy killing two black guys and then turning yellow should have "symbolized" the whole idea of the yellows for you but at least I don't have to take my video names, ideas, plots and "symbolization" from another game. Please guys...I don't want this to get closed, so let's not get it.
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Ralph the Wonder Llama

Joined: 14 Feb 2006
Location: www.clantrickthis.com

PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
You know comrad...it's really become obvious. You never watched this movie trying to enjoy it and have a good time. It's extrememly obvious that you just watched the movie to find little tiny parts to nitpick at and insult that overall creators ability to make a movie. You never even watched the first one...Maybe you should watch the prequel to understand the sequel. I've stated that this movie wasn't the second part of Chaos on the Creek, rather just a movie that happens years later, with tension remaining from the great war on the creek, but it still set's up and explains the hate of the two peaceful army. When you come to HIH, are you intentions to help people with their movies or is to come and nitpick at the movies as badly as you can because you don't have anything else to do. I love having feedback, seriously but ONE post of feedback is enough. I really don't want 4 pages of your opinions on this movie, and this isn't even MY movie. I'm sure Jamie isn't happy about the fact you have soiled this topic. I like discussion, because when two smart people discuss such as you and highhat, you talk about the movie so much, that I can collect even more feedback and opinions about the movie. I've talked to people and mods and they agree, you need to be quiet sometimes. I thank you for the feedback....all 4 pages of it but I think we've seen enough. To you, plot may be everything and establishing the plot may be everything, but this is HIH. It's mainly a trick site, and tricks wow people. There is more to movies nowaday than plot and story. There is the hardwork people put into the movie. When you sit there and a guy says "Whoa...that musta been hard to do. This guy is amazing, he works so hard to get a little 3 second shot. As much as you hate it, what seperates the good movies from the bad on HIH is the work put in them, not the plot put in them. Look at pyramids in Egypt. People gawk at those because of the work they did just to put a Kings body in there. When you can get bunches of people to work together to make something as good as this video(not bragging) but to get people to work together in a game where the object is to kil, kill and kill, you wow people. You may think that the replies and praise you got from your video(sorry to bring your video up, it's dirty I know) was because you wowed the crowd with a copied plot and copied storyline, it's not, it's because you wowed them with your hardwork and ability to do something as difficult as that, just for some good praise on a video game site. Your movie was great because of the work you and your actors put in. The hardwork they went through to get the voices done and work you did to make it into a movie...Now If I remeber, your movie was canceled because you have no one to work with...It's sad, you seem to think your so great and think you can make a perfect plot and perfectly symbolize that plot...but yet you can't even get a working cast together...tsk tsk.
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comradx

Joined: 23 Jan 2005
Location: R.I.P. LTL ELITE & Hot LilMikes

PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
However, I also asked my literary teacher if symbolism was a necessity for establishing a theme, or even a deep, meaningful theme, and, as I have been believing from the start, symbolism isn't required. My teacher stated, and I quote, "Symbolism can add depth to a theme. It doesn't necessarily define it. It -can-, but it isn't always the case."


it adds depth to a theme. themes are ALWAYS there no matter what, but that does NOT mean they are automatically meaningful. they need to be deep to be meaningful and apply to other scenarios like the great literary works of yore, etc. symbolism IS the defninition of a GOOD, DEEP THEME. and your teacher will/did say the same.

you need to learn what a theme actually is before commenting on it in the future i think. ill explain more on that below.

YOU said it was deep and had a deep theme and plot. not me. when i asked where it was, you guys failed miserably to give a reasonable response. you recited the plot that we already knew. then ralph, the writer btw, not jamie, came in with his knowledge and told us exactly what the inner depths of this peice consisted of...which was nothing but the external plot just like i said it was. who needs to confirm it for you guys before you realize YOU are making up the subtext for the vid? and i didnt mean there was no theme at all in any sense, but there is no discernable theme at all rather. name it or stop wasting ppl's time readin this mess.

vengeance isnt a theme that can be illustrated so plainly and garner such praise form the likes of you. ask your teacher what the theme of the vid is and ask him/her to give 5 examples of what defines said theme in terms of symbolism, char dev'ment, or plot dev'ment. you want vengeance as part of a subtheme? go play shenmue 1 and 2.

vengeance is NEVER used as a sole theme. its ALWAYS a subtheme. it compliments the major theme of a story. like in shenmue. the initial tale is jump started thru your char trying to hunt down the man who killed his father. then what happens? he discovers there is a lot more at stake than avenging his pa's death. thats what ALWAYS happens with vengeance. its a psuedo theme if you like it stated as such. but never the defined theme carried throughout a tale.

deception is a friggin joke. the ONLY means of deception at all here is the yellow going incogneto to start the war. nothing past that. no one else is misleading anyone else. anywhere in the remainder of the story.

you should really get more creative when making up your own themes and such here man. hell, if ralph was a little smarter, he'd have chosen the colors more carefully to illustrate an allegory for racial tensions in today's society. oh well. this coulda been a great allegory depicitng events including the xyz affair or the zimmerman note even. there is some deception. any time you ask a writer why he chose a char's defining actions in a DEEP PLOT, the answers are by definition deep as well. not just b/c one group wanted 2 others to fight.

a REAL EXAMPLE of the types of theme you are manually implanting in this film can be found in the film, hotel rwanda. go watch it and see how things are symbolized there. you cant have several subthemes and claim there is any major theme if there is clearly not. deception, vengeance, and self destruction are ALL SUBTHEMES! btw, the war was between 2 sides. there was plenty of destruction, but never self destruction. you dont see any emotional or physical self destruction here at all. anger, hatred, and death arent themes either, lol. a theme is NOT a one word description of a plot. themes are elaborate convictions hinted at within a plot and subplot that illustrate a meanginful message the author wishes to convey to the audience in order to let them walk away with an impactful impression. not random words used to describe various emotions or events in a vid.

high hat, you are more then welcome to like a vid only due to its good action scenes. there is nothing wrong with that. but just b/c you see some neat battles and no subtext, dont go making one up yourself, lol. some action scenes are just cool enough to enjoy on their own. my personal type of action is purely meaningful. i dont like pointless action without it having some subtext to it. just agree you like something w/o a complex theme and move on already. its not a damned sin to like something i dont ya know.




ralph,

i misunderstood what you were apparently trying to say. your analogy or comparison there sucked, lol. you kinda sounded like you felt hitler was a genius (he was) for getting usa/russia to fight when that never happened obviously. but yeah, thats fairly clever. but thats one tiny bullet point to your plot outline. where is the rest of it to show its deep?

btw, if you dont want to be made a fool of in ANOTHER one of your threads and get it closed, stop attacking my stuff, kid. you've been embarrassed before and i wont hesitate to do it again if you wanna push me on it. i never said teh plot sucked. i said it has no depth. i also certainly said loud and clear taht for teh tastes of the hih croware smarter than that. this isnt vengeanced, there is nothing wrong with a purely action-centered film as they love that stuff here.


Last edited by comradx on Mon Mar 06, 2006 7:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
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TheMaker420
Movie News Crew

Joined: 02 Jun 2005
Location: Teh Movie Critic

PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Well, that (^) about sums up what I was going to say, lol. But please comrad, stop the criticising, we get the point man. Anything else you'd like to point out, send it in a PM if you can, thank you.

~Maker
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comradx

Joined: 23 Jan 2005
Location: R.I.P. LTL ELITE & Hot LilMikes

PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
TheMaker420 wrote:
Well, that (^) about sums up what I was going to say, lol. But please comrad, stop the criticising, we get the point man. Anything else you'd like to point out, send it in a PM if you can, thank you.

~Maker


im just "reminding" ole ralphy that his complaints about ppl getting threads locked are ludicrous when he attacks other ppl outright for no reason at all right after asking ppl to stop arguing. tahts like telling yer kids to stop crying so you hit them with a brick. it doesnt do anything but make it worse.
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notSiD

Joined: 25 Oct 2005
Location: Las Cruces, New Mexico

PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
ok, obviously you guys ignored my post. Rolling Eyes

you wanted the explanantion comrad and their it is as plain as day, but to further point out how wrong you really are, here are some defintions straight from a dictionary...

Symbolism= the art or practice of using symbols. by investing things through a symbolic meaning or by expressing the invisible or intangible by means visible or sensuous representrations.

Symbolic=relating to or sonstituting a symbol.

Symbol= that stands for or suggest something else by reason of realtionship, association, convention, or accidental resemblance.

plot- main idea of a story. plot consists of body language, emotion, dialogue, and symbolism, this movie had no dialougue, this movie couldn'r show body language, and could only show little emotion, THUS THIS WHOLE DAMN MOVIE WAS SYMBOLISM!!!!! THE SYMBOLISM IS DAMN OBVIOUS!!!

This is a text book example of Symbology, all you have to do is pay attention while your watching the movie. you guys go off into your little rant about nothing, when i keep telling you what it IS, hat is wrong, because he says their isn't symbolism, and it's obvious that he didn't pay attenton to the movie, because he says that for every black guy that dies a white guy dies,(which is sooo totally wrong) it's obvious that Ralph got tired of reading our post or he would have responded to mine. and pointed out that Hat was wrong.(or was nice enough not to say anything. this is probably why ralph started saying that this thread was going to get locked, because he has little idea of what is going on) and it's obvious that you guys keep ignoring me, just so you can't face the truth.(if you decide to read this one, in the last post i go through ever scene, and give it's ymbolism, you guys stop fighting cause your both wrong.
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Ralph the Wonder Llama

Joined: 14 Feb 2006
Location: www.clantrickthis.com

PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
notSiD wrote:
ok, obviously you guys ignored my post. Rolling Eyes

you wanted the explanantion comrad and their it is as plain as day, but to further point out how wrong you really are, here are some defintions straight from a dictionary...

Symbolism= the art or practice of using symbols. by investing things through a symbolic meaning or by expressing the invisible or intangible by means visible or sensuous representrations.

Symbolic=relating to or sonstituting a symbol.

Symbol= that stands for or suggest something else by reason of realtionship, association, convention, or accidental resemblance.

plot- main idea of a story. plot consists of body language, emotion, dialogue, and symbolism, this movie had no dialougue, this movie couldn'r show body language, and could only show little emotion, THUS THIS WHOLE DAMN MOVIE WAS SYMBOLISM!!!!! THE SYMBOLISM IS DAMN OBVIOUS!!!

This is a text book example of Symbology, all you have to do is pay attention while your watching the movie. you guys go off into your little rant about nothing, when i keep telling you what it IS, hat is wrong, because he says their isn't symbolism, and it's obvious that he didn't pay attenton to the movie, because he says that for every black guy that dies a white guy dies,(which is sooo totally wrong) it's obvious that Ralph got tired of reading our post or he would have responded to mine. and pointed out that Hat was wrong.(or was nice enough not to say anything. this is probably why ralph started saying that this thread was going to get locked, because he has little idea of what is going on) and it's obvious that you guys keep ignoring me, just so you can't face the truth.(if you decide to read this one, in the last post i go through ever scene, and give it's ymbolism, you guys stop fighting cause your both wrong.


I read it, it was an amazing detail of the movie, I never realized anyone could find that much plot and detail in the movie. I think your the only one that really captured me and Jamies overall intent, with the whites losing and eventually deciding that suicide was the only option.
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comradx

Joined: 23 Jan 2005
Location: R.I.P. LTL ELITE & Hot LilMikes

PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
plot- main idea of a story. plot consists of body language, emotion, dialogue, and symbolism, this movie had no dialougue, this movie couldn'r show body language, and could only show little emotion, THUS THIS WHOLE DAMN MOVIE WAS SYMBOLISM!!!!! THE SYMBOLISM IS DAMN OBVIOUS!!!


so the plot elements being non-existant makes the plot deep now? tell me yer joking, kid. so since there was no body language, no emotion, and no dialogue, then it automatically means the plot elements ENTIRELY HAVE to by default be symbolism? HAHAHAHAH!!!!

Quote:
This is a text book example of Symbology


since when did 'textbook example' mean that you assume taht since no other elements of a decent plot exist, then the symbolism must exist by default? btw "symbology" isnt a word pal. are you making this up as you go along?

Quote:
ok, obviously you guys ignored my post.


Yeah b/c im waiting with baited breath to see what someone describe the footage to me when ive seen it several times, lol. Uh huh. I saw your post and it had nothing at all to do with what high hat and I are talking about. You are arguing a thin definition of a plot exists, then claim its deep ONLY b/c some random events occur in the footage meaning it has SOME sort of plot by definition and the absurd induction that since there are no other worthshile plot elements illustrated, then symbolism must automatically be overflowing from this piece. What a crock.

Quote:
the calm music and walking of everyone gave a serene invironment to make it feel like it was a normal day. the guy that's watching them pass seems like a normal guy just watching them go by.


A simplistic setting is NOT symbolism. Try againÖ

Quote:
then a total contrast music out of nowhere appears. completely turning the whole peacefullness of the setting which you created.


Yep setting againÖsymbolism?

Quote:
now in the camera you don't actually see him shoot them, but just see him fire shots. and then the camera. the reason he shot the camera is because he wanted them to feel like it really was the whites firing at the blacks.


Says who? You? Ralph said he never thought about that when writing it. HmmmmmÖthe rest of your post is nothing more than you outlining every tiny event in the film. Telling us events is NOT illustrating symbolism nor depth at all. It illustrates how long it takes you to describe the film ive already watched several times.

Quote:
that is what i got from your film, and because there is no dialogue it is all symbolism. and if you say that, that^ is not plot, then you are just lying to yourself. and i say they did an amazing job for using only scenes, no body language or facial expressions(because their isn't, it's a game)


there can still be emotion and body language, lol. Go watch my ep 1 or my trailers that show emotion. Go watch some of XPHYERís stuff for good body language and good theme/symbolism.

and its funny you say such and such is the plot. So what? I could spend an hour outlining the tiniest details of any 30 sec commercial and say its got loads more depth than this does. Plot is one thing. Itís a literally chronology of events. A GOOD and DEEP PLOT is quite another. And I CANNOT BELIEVE you are saying that since there is no other plot elements, there MUST be TONS of symbolismÖnone of which you have began to point out as of yet btw.
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HighHat314

Joined: 14 Apr 2005
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
notSiD wrote:
and it's obvious that you guys keep ignoring me, just so you can't face the truth.(if you decide to read this one, in the last post i go through ever scene, and give it's ymbolism, you guys stop fighting cause your both wrong.


Actually I just preferred not to read 60+ straight lines of banter, especially considering that I had to head to work at the time that I read it. I couldn't respond to comrad -and- read your post. Silly billy. Razz

I said before that a literary scholar explained to me that symbolism is an intentional movement by the writer. This is the only reason I decided to go against the notion that there was symbolism in the movie. Plus, if you read -my- post, I explain that I don't even think that symbolism is that important in this film.

I make much more emphasis on the themes, but, at this point, I'm really tired of this argument. I can't convince comrad, he can't convince me. Both of us have agreed to disagree agreeably on some, but not all subjects, and I'm fine with that.

Please, stop acting like you know my intentions by telling me that I'm "fighting" with comrad. If you knew anything past my forum tag you'd know that comrad and I are established co-workers, and debate like this all the time.

As for my attention of the movie, you're basing my entire understanding on one quotation? My statement that at one point for every one member dead an opposite member dies? Is it really such a detramental fault of mine to come to the conclusion that, at one point, if not throughout the movie, both sides seemed to be at a stalemate?

I've spent enough time on this film for my liking, so please, don't start bad-talking me. At first you talked about formulating opinions without superiority of one over the other, and now you're calling yours right overall.

As for ignoring you, I do believe I spent a page and a half talking to you already. I can't give you attention whenever you want it you know.
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comradx

Joined: 23 Jan 2005
Location: R.I.P. LTL ELITE & Hot LilMikes

PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
It's extrememly obvious that you just watched the movie to find little tiny parts to nitpick at and insult that overall creators ability to make a movie. You never even watched the first one...Maybe you should watch the prequel to understand the sequel. I've stated that this movie wasn't the second part of Chaos on the Creek


Yeah, thatís a hobby of mine is to follow you guys around and annoy you. It was on todayís to do list for the past few days and I just got around to it. Lol. Get a clue beardless. You showed us all the extent your depth ran with your detailed plot outline and it was nothing but the external plot just like I said it was. Go figure. And why the hell are you whining I never saw chaos on the creek when you call it a prequel, then in the very next sentence you way it wasnít the second part of that story to being with? DurrÖÖÖ

Quote:
When you come to HIH, are you intentions to help people with their movies or is to come and nitpick at the movies as badly as you can because you don't have anything else to do. I love having feedback, seriously but ONE post of feedback is enough.


I helped. I gave you advice. Its up to you to listen to it or not. I told you it had no plot that had any depth and was nothing but an excuse to make an action movie. Which I likewise said is perfectly fine, just not to my tastes. Any I gave you one post of feedback. This isnít YOUR forum. You donít control who posts where and ill be damned if you think b/c someone you know made the thread means that you get to say who posts what on the subject. 2 others commented on what I said and I replied to their comments. We have an on-going discussion. Donít like it? Go away I guess. But donít presume to tell me or others where to post our thoughts in a public thread on a public forum on a public website.

Quote:
I've talked to people and mods and they agree, you need to be quiet sometimes


The mods arenít the end all, be all of right and wrong. They are as human as any poster here and I guarantee you the majority of them donít have the education under their belt I do for what its worth. In short, tell them to get their butts up to the plate and ill debate this with them too if they wish. Obviously not all authority figures at hih agree with high hat or notsid or you either as themaker pointed out.

Quote:
To you, plot may be everything and establishing the plot may be everything, but this is HIH. It's mainly a trick site, and tricks wow people. There is more to movies nowaday than plot and story. There is the hardwork people put into the movie.


And you were given ample credit for your action sequences and editing in my review as well as me pointing out multiple times in each post how the action is good even without needing to discuss it. I went outta my way to remind you that the action was good for the most part in every post I made pretty much. And you STILL whine that I didnít like your story/plot! Get over it. There is no depth to it at all and I already explained why in other posts. And if Jamie is so upset about my comments, which I highly doubt he gives 2 schlapskie about, then he is welcome to debate with me as well.

Quote:
It's sad, you seem to think your so great and think you can make a perfect plot and perfectly symbolize that plot...but yet you can't even get a working cast together...tsk tsk.


Where did i calim anything of the sort? Quote me or go back to hiding in your hole. At least I knew my storyline. You friggin outlined EXACTLY the depth of your vid in your previous posts! Yet it has ZERO depth to it even there! And you have the nerve to claim your plot is thick and deep and shows exemplary thematical symbolism?! Are you kidding me?

Seriously, you are whining about me not giving you ANY credit when I gave you guys TONS of credit. I wonder how long before Jamie pmís me once again apologizing about your childish inability to take any criticisms and a likewise adolescent inability to read what the hell someone types.

And I donít think you want to bring my stuff into the debate, as every time you try to do just that, I can just was easily show you a TON more elaborate plot elements in my trailers alone than you got in your whole friggin film here. You need to learn to read and realize im criticizing one aspect of your film when I already gave you ample credit on others. You admit over and over the plot isnít meant to be deep, then when I say its not deep you throw a hissy fit. Ill say this just ONE MORE TIME TO YOUÖgrow up beardless.

Btw, I've got more ppl working with me on my new project than you do I'm sure, not to mention a lot more tlaent in most of the key areas like voice acting, which you guys dont even do it seems, music composition (go to edgen.com for my composer's works/resume + cd's for sale), and sound fx. i also at least present a story in my stuff not to mention the fact youve seen a grand total of ONE of my vids. ive seen several of yours. dont be so fast to judge me and my team when at least we put out audio in our stuff. so stop attacking me and my stuff and debate the points at hand kid. otherwise stop posting right now.
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HighHat314

Joined: 14 Apr 2005
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
You know what I like about long posts? Usually, when I'm done, I'll hit refresh and the next post will be right there.

Very Happy
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comradx

Joined: 23 Jan 2005
Location: R.I.P. LTL ELITE & Hot LilMikes

PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
HighHat314 wrote:
You know what I like about long posts? Usually, when I'm done, I'll hit refresh and the next post will be right there.

Very Happy


**coughSPAMcough*** Wink
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HighHat314

Joined: 14 Apr 2005
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
comradx wrote:
HighHat314 wrote:
You know what I like about long posts? Usually, when I'm done, I'll hit refresh and the next post will be right there.

Very Happy


**coughSPAMcough*** Wink


I love you too Mr. Threadclose, sir. Very Happy
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notSiD

Joined: 25 Oct 2005
Location: Las Cruces, New Mexico

PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
hello, Baka, dude the only things you pointed out was things that you say aren't symbolism then say the rest of the things i was saying was discription, OMG what are you smoking, no seriously cause it makes you one of the most stubborn people i have ever seen, i read your post and 90% was you complaining how i said that if it had no other elements that it must be Symbolism, I gave you a Whole page of symbolism, your just to blind to and stubborn to realize it. and as for hat i wasn't bad-mouthing you but we have argued that our plot ideas are totally diffrent, and i was proving why my plot points whre right and that yours where wrong(to a certain extent, but my fight with you has already ended because i got the creator backing up what i thought, this is my last post(so be glad) on this thread becuase this getting annoying to type so much about something that i already know is correct because comrads discussions are becoming less and less valid. obviously he needs to take another gander at the definitions i posted, and then look at what i posted, if this plot has no depth then damn, i might be too confused to actually see something with the depth.

so faragua Mombassa massacre, i have thee on my desktop, and i tried to back you up as much as one man could, but again arguing with comrd is liek arguing to a rock.
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HighHat314

Joined: 14 Apr 2005
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
notSiD wrote:
and as for hat i wasn't bad-mouthing you but we have argued that our plot ideas are totally diffrent, and i was proving why my plot points whre right and that yours where wrong(to a certain extent, but my fight with you has already ended because i got the creator backing up what i thought, this is my last post(so be glad) on this thread becuase this getting annoying to type so much about something that i already know is correct because comrads discussions are becoming less and less valid.


Your statements on plot and theme were virtually what I had agreed to.
Essentially, Ralph confirmed points that both of us had already agreed on.
Your argument about plot and theme is with comrad, not me.
So, essentially, we're both right, if you want to believe that you're right.
What's the deal man?
I already agreed to what we were arguing about initially, that is, what you and I were arguing about.
I thought we were done arguing. : (

Pals? <3


Last edited by HighHat314 on Mon Mar 06, 2006 11:22 pm; edited 3 times in total
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comradx

Joined: 23 Jan 2005
Location: R.I.P. LTL ELITE & Hot LilMikes

PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
notSiD wrote:
hello, Baka, dude the only things you pointed out was things that you say aren't symbolism then say the rest of the things i was saying was discription, OMG what are you smoking, no seriously cause it makes you one of the most stubborn people i have ever seen, i read your post and 90% was you complaining how i said that if it had no other elements that it must be Symbolism, I gave you a Whole page of symbolism, your just to blind to and stubborn to realize it. and as for hat i wasn't bad-mouthing you but we have argued that our plot ideas are totally diffrent, and i was proving why my plot points whre right and that yours where wrong(to a certain extent, but my fight with you has already ended because i got the creator backing up what i thought, this is my last post(so be glad) on this thread becuase this getting annoying to type so much about something that i already know is correct because comrads discussions are becoming less and less valid. obviously he needs to take another gander at the definitions i posted, and then look at what i posted, if this plot has no depth then damn, i might be too confused to actually see something with the depth.

so faragua Mombassa massacre, i have thee on my desktop, and i tried to back you up as much as one man could, but again arguing with comrd is liek arguing to a rock.


yeah us rocks are pretty clever guys, no? must be them engineering degrees we all have. Cool

you gave not one sentence of symbolism as of yet. you lose. its over. keep making action vids beardless/jamie. just add some subtext and depth next time to make it have another angle of interest.
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HighHat314

Joined: 14 Apr 2005
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Oh yeah, and congrats to the production crew for breaking 2,000 views!

Very Happy

<3

no homo
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Ralph the Wonder Llama

Joined: 14 Feb 2006
Location: www.clantrickthis.com

PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
comradx wrote:
Quote:
It's extrememly obvious that you just watched the movie to find little tiny parts to nitpick at and insult that overall creators ability to make a movie. You never even watched the first one...Maybe you should watch the prequel to understand the sequel. I've stated that this movie wasn't the second part of Chaos on the Creek


Yeah, thatís a hobby of mine is to follow you guys around and annoy you. It was on todayís to do list for the past few days and I just got around to it. Lol. Get a clue beardless. You showed us all the extent your depth ran with your detailed plot outline and it was nothing but the external plot just like I said it was. Go figure. And why the hell are you whining I never saw chaos on the creek when you call it a prequel, then in the very next sentence you way it wasnít the second part of that story to being with? DurrÖÖÖ

Quote:
When you come to HIH, are you intentions to help people with their movies or is to come and nitpick at the movies as badly as you can because you don't have anything else to do. I love having feedback, seriously but ONE post of feedback is enough.


I helped. I gave you advice. Its up to you to listen to it or not. I told you it had no plot that had any depth and was nothing but an excuse to make an action movie. Which I likewise said is perfectly fine, just not to my tastes. Any I gave you one post of feedback. This isnít YOUR forum. You donít control who posts where and ill be damned if you think b/c someone you know made the thread means that you get to say who posts what on the subject. 2 others commented on what I said and I replied to their comments. We have an on-going discussion. Donít like it? Go away I guess. But donít presume to tell me or others where to post our thoughts in a public thread on a public forum on a public website.

Quote:
I've talked to people and mods and they agree, you need to be quiet sometimes


The mods arenít the end all, be all of right and wrong. They are as human as any poster here and I guarantee you the majority of them donít have the education under their belt I do for what its worth. In short, tell them to get their butts up to the plate and ill debate this with them too if they wish. Obviously not all authority figures at hih agree with high hat or notsid or you either as themaker pointed out.

Quote:
To you, plot may be everything and establishing the plot may be everything, but this is HIH. It's mainly a trick site, and tricks wow people. There is more to movies nowaday than plot and story. There is the hardwork people put into the movie.


And you were given ample credit for your action sequences and editing in my review as well as me pointing out multiple times in each post how the action is good even without needing to discuss it. I went outta my way to remind you that the action was good for the most part in every post I made pretty much. And you STILL whine that I didnít like your story/plot! Get over it. There is no depth to it at all and I already explained why in other posts. And if Jamie is so upset about my comments, which I highly doubt he gives 2 schlapskie about, then he is welcome to debate with me as well.

Quote:
It's sad, you seem to think your so great and think you can make a perfect plot and perfectly symbolize that plot...but yet you can't even get a working cast together...tsk tsk.


Where did i calim anything of the sort? Quote me or go back to hiding in your hole. At least I knew my storyline. You friggin outlined EXACTLY the depth of your vid in your previous posts! Yet it has ZERO depth to it even there! And you have the nerve to claim your plot is thick and deep and shows exemplary thematical symbolism?! Are you kidding me?

Seriously, you are whining about me not giving you ANY credit when I gave you guys TONS of credit. I wonder how long before Jamie pmís me once again apologizing about your childish inability to take any criticisms and a likewise adolescent inability to read what the hell someone types.

And I donít think you want to bring my stuff into the debate, as every time you try to do just that, I can just was easily show you a TON more elaborate plot elements in my trailers alone than you got in your whole friggin film here. You need to learn to read and realize im criticizing one aspect of your film when I already gave you ample credit on others. You admit over and over the plot isnít meant to be deep, then when I say its not deep you throw a hissy fit. Ill say this just ONE MORE TIME TO YOUÖgrow up beardless.

Btw, I've got more ppl working with me on my new project than you do I'm sure, not to mention a lot more tlaent in most of the key areas like voice acting, which you guys dont even do it seems, music composition (go to edgen.com for my composer's works/resume + cd's for sale), and sound fx. i also at least present a story in my stuff not to mention the fact youve seen a grand total of ONE of my vids. ive seen several of yours. dont be so fast to judge me and my team when at least we put out audio in our stuff. so stop attacking me and my stuff and debate the points at hand kid. otherwise stop posting right now.


I agree man...You can show me more plot elements in your movies man...In fact, I'll go play Halo 2 campaign right now so I can see those elements. I won't argue with you, Bungie made one helluva plot that smashes mine. Don't try to brag about your plot which you stole from Bungie. Also...I'm sorry, but IMO, 4 pages of non stop posts about the films plot is not feedback anymore, it's insults. You are blind. It stopped being feedback around your 5th or 6th post in this thread. If I left about 20 posts in your movies topic about how poor your camera work was, you'd be mad, believe me. Also, This isn't your forum either and it may not be mine but it doesn't give you the right to come into Jamies topic and ruin it with a fight over a movies plot...seriously dude...You're how old and your fighting(well, discussing for Highhats sake) over how good a video game's movie plot was...oh man...and you call me immature. You can post here all you want, but I'm ASKING you, please don't spam this topic up. I'm not mad that you don't like my plot or w/e...I could care less. I'm mad because you are ruining this topic and making it unfriendly. I've been flammed before for my movies and a war never broke out...then again the guy left one comment and left instead of continuously crapping my topic up. Stop bragging about your movie and how well you showed your plot...I understand you did a great job, but remember you USED the Halo 2 cutscenes. Therefore you did a crappy job to symbolize your plot. Sure you got the job done...but you did a crappy job. Imagine if the movie remakes nowaday used clips from the original version so that they properly set up the plot. You think what you think, I really don't care, but please for the last time, let's go a bit easy on this topic. Jamie has never done anything to you. You say this won't be locked but we all know it's about to.
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Soupa

Joined: 13 Jul 2005

PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 11:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ralph the Wonder Llama wrote:

I read it, it was an amazing detail of the movie, I never realized anyone could find that much plot and detail in the movie. I think your the only one that really captured me and Jamies overall intent, with the whites losing and eventually deciding that suicide was the only option.


Believe it or not, and i'm not being sarcastic or not, if you take a deeper look into any movie you can see a kind of depth that not many would generally see.

A perfect example would be to look at the tv series "Family Guy", Even though it's creater said the show was never really made to make sence, or have depth, it will always have a main theme or specific idea.

Like Stewie's birthday episode it's specific theme was surrounding "The Man in White", but also had ALOT of sub plots, flashbacks, ect...
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