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Cooperative runs: open discussion

 
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slYnki

Joined: 06 Oct 2005
Location: Dear Abby, Got a problem.

PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2006 9:22 pm    Post subject: Cooperative runs: open discussion Reply with quote
Well, I suggested to scurty that this topic be made to set our aim forward, and so it exists. First of all, the both of us are planning co-op runs with our respective partners. And by both of us, I mean I'm forcing scurty to do co-op runs that I don't want to do Very Happy

We're starting off on Easy, and from there, I don't really know. I don't know if my partner will want to do Legendary. He might, he might not. But Easy comes first! So let's not linger on Legendary until the time comes.

This thread exists for open discussion. I didn't want to continue spamming the Halo under 1:40 thread, so yeah. This thead will devote itself to co-operative strategy discussion. I know Gilgalad made a topic about this awhile ago with a bunch of strategies, but I guess we're going to expand.... Consider that old thread revamped!

You can just put your strategies in an individual post, and I'll probably get around to putting them into this first post Razz

So here's the topic scurty, let us resume our discussion. Ooh ooh, and before this ends, I'd just like to list the levels that are going to be done by such and such:

PoA: Me
Halo: Me
T&R: Me
SC: Me
AotCR: scurty!
343: Me
Library: Me
TB: Me
Keyes: scurty!
Maw: We're deciding on this one @_@;


Post away everyone.
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scurty

Joined: 30 Mar 2005
Location: Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2006 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
My strategies for the two levels you have me doing:

AotCR:

There's really only one good thing to do on Co-op that I know of.. and that's activating the very first switch with your partner. This is the hardest switch for me to pull off quickly and cleanly because you have to make a 180 and then guess when to get out so you are right near the switch. This usually costs quite a few seconds if you don't do it perfect. The remaining switch is easily hit by just getting out of the ghost and hitting it. Rest of the level doesn't require any Co-op tricks as far as I know.

Keyes:

I can shave off about two seconds from my Easy run easily if my brother runs along the hallway as I run along the rafters. Remember, there's that one gap in the rafters you have to worry about and that's why I'm so cautious up there because.. well.. you can't see where you're going. Then comes the most improtant part. My brother will activate the cutscene by gettign the necessary checkpoint at the black wall and on his way back the flood spawn three times. It's actually fun to just see them appear. The cutscene doesn't activate until he is about 50 feet from the blob room but that's still about 6 seconds of walking and 1 second of waiting saved. Then the rest is obvious.
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slYnki

Joined: 06 Oct 2005
Location: Dear Abby, Got a problem.

PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2006 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I've always wondered, have you ever considered dual cutscenes? Have one player do that big drop cutscene, while the other player does the blob cutscene. I don't even know what that would accomplish, but it would just be cool Razz

And I wonder what would happen if one person went to the blob room, while another player grenade hopped into the hangar bay. Me personally, I think Keyes has so much potential to go very low.

Anyways, I'm gonna write down my PoA strategy, and when I get to the other levels, write them down. So here's PoA:

- Have player 2 run to the door at the beginning and do the jump over.
- Still have to test if that bridge cutscene glitch can be a bit more speedy.
- You can burn through the map faster than any other difficulty of course from here on out.
- When you reach to the "get back to the air lock!" area, I'm gonna run in and grab a quick overshield, while my friend keeps running forward. I'll get the shield, and teleport to him. I'm grabbing the overshield, because I can pull off the grenade down the level without worry. And that's about it.

I was going to fiddle around with Ms.Man's strange technique to get over doors and such, but I just don't feel like trying to learn that technique. Besides, it probably isn't very consistant, so it'll just be left out. We'll be recording PoA next weekend hopefully. Maybe during the week, but I highly doubt it, considering we have midterms to finish up.
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scurty

Joined: 30 Mar 2005
Location: Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2006 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
slYnki-DS wrote:
I've always wondered, have you ever considered dual cutscenes? Have one player do that big drop cutscene, while the other player does the blob cutscene. I don't even know what that would accomplish, but it would just be cool :P


This actually seems like a really good idea.. I remember someone on the Halo 1 forum mention this and saying how they cancel out somehow and neither play.. I'll try this tonight.

Quote:
And I wonder what would happen if one person went to the blob room, while another player grenade hopped into the hangar bay. Me personally, I think Keyes has so much potential to go very low.


That won't work unfortunately. Second player spawns right near player 1 after cutscene is over with. That was nice thinking though !
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flechette
speedrunning ogre
speedrunning ogre

Joined: 02 Sep 2004
Location: NY! Long Island.

PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2006 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Can you grenade-skip the keyes cutscenes? (like you can grenade-skip checkpoints?)

-flech
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NOKYARD
That Delta Guy

Joined: 18 Jan 2005
Location: London Ontario Canada - 'it's a fact' Miss Universe 1982 was from London

PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2006 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Two Betrayals is in my opinion the best map for co-op trickery in all of Halo (yes, even better than Delta!) - there are so many strategies and tricks - i wouldn't know where to start - so i'll try to get one of the 'crew' over next weekend and i'll put together a vid of all the shortcuts i know -

and speaking of shortcuts - i activated the lightbridge on Halo without activating the cutscene or spawning the elites (well, they didn't shoot at me while i was running back down) is this new? - i'd check HSH but, you know....
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scurty

Joined: 30 Mar 2005
Location: Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2006 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Can you tell me how to do that, flech? I'd do almost anythign to skip that damn cutscene.


And about the lightbridge, activating it without the cutscene happens I guess once you beat the level because I've done that on easy before. I'm not sure about the elite thing however, I don't know where the elites are supposed to spawn.
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slYnki

Joined: 06 Oct 2005
Location: Dear Abby, Got a problem.

PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2006 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
LMAO, Noky. Unfortunately that isn't new. I think I've had instances where the elites don't spawn at all, but I can't really be sure. I'll be using that shortcut in my co-op run. My partner is going to whip the warthog to the side, I'll hop out, do a tiny speed jump to the wall, and grenade hop up to the switch. He'll position himself right on the light bridge, and can immediatley drive when the bridge is activated.

From there, I don't really know what we're going to do. It'll probably end up as my buddy killing and collecting some marines, while I clear out the covenant in the last area (well, last area as a referance to gwptro's run). That should work.

As for Keyes, hmm.... I don't know what the dual cutscene would accomplish, but it's a thought if anything. It just came to me after thinking about Silent Cartographer. And just a question, when you do the shield bump and get to the blob room, is the blob right there? Or do you have to spawn it by going into that corner of the door?

I was just thinking that if you could just immediately go into the blob cutscene and have one person in the hangar already.... oh man. The banshees would come right away and there you have it.

But I'm making up miracle strategies about now, so whatever Razz
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scurty

Joined: 30 Mar 2005
Location: Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2006 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yes, the blob is there when you enter the room but you can't activate the cutscene by going up there, you have to get that checkpoint first.
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slYnki

Joined: 06 Oct 2005
Location: Dear Abby, Got a problem.

PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2006 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Stupid blob. Ah well, I guess Keyes is your level o.o;
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FractalFusion

Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Formerly known as 82-35-43

PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 2:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
NOKYARD wrote:
and speaking of shortcuts - i activated the lightbridge on Halo without activating the cutscene or spawning the elites (well, they didn't shoot at me while i was running back down) is this new? - i'd check HSH but, you know....


The elites spawn, but sometimes they don't see you. I've done it a few times.

I'm thinking of how to no-shot Halo on Legendary. Without fighting the first area, I devised a stealth-like way of getting past the lightbridge room. But fighting any of the 4 marine areas without a warthog and without shooting is just suicide.
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NOKYARD
That Delta Guy

Joined: 18 Jan 2005
Location: London Ontario Canada - 'it's a fact' Miss Universe 1982 was from London

PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 7:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
can you do the shield bump with someone standing on your head? - p1 could get the blob checkpoint and stay there - p2 stays in the blob room - after the cutscene p1 sprints to the finish
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StuporMan

Joined: 20 Dec 2005
Location: Looking for my Keyes.

PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I think the problem with Keyes and Coop is that the blob room cutscene contains a checkpoint AND a loading zone. (Several deaths in the hangar have proven this to me) No matter what you do, you cannot get a player any closer to the end during the cutscene. The only advantage after the bump (which could be faster coop I believe) is that player 2 can keep the covenant in the exit to the blob room busy so that player 1 can more easily escape. Likewise having two players will make getting to the bottom of the hangar much more easily.

Unfortunately I am stuck without an X-box, no coop for me Crying or Very sad

StuporMan
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scurty

Joined: 30 Mar 2005
Location: Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yeah, if you cutscene didn't have a loading point, one player could grenade jump to the hangar bay from the start and just wait there for the banshees. My plan is to have myself do the shield bump and have my brother guide me along the rafters so I can run forward, not backwards. This alone will save a few seconds. Then he kills himself with two grenades and activates the checkpoint for me while I stay near the blob.
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slYnki

Joined: 06 Oct 2005
Location: Dear Abby, Got a problem.

PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Well, I'm gonna wait for those shortcuts and stuff in Two Betrayals, Nok. In the mean time, I'm gonna write down what I have figured for that level:

- I don't really know what's gonna happen in the beginning. Maybe one player dropping down the left side of the level and getting the rocket launcher. I don't know how that'd be beneficial, so we'll see.
- When one player destroys the pulse generator, have the second player run through the teleporting thingy, so both players are in the hallway a lot faster.
- After you get down the elevator and into the next room, this is what's happening. Both players run to the left. Have one player stand on the other's head and over the hole.
- Have one player get one ghost, and I don't know what to do with the second player here......
- Do the same teleporting trick in the other pulse generator.
- After you get out of the pulse generator area, have one player in the banshee, and another in the ghost. Instead of doing insid's ghost trick, you can quickly have one player ram the other through the door.


I haven't even gotten to this level to test everything yet, but that's a rough outline I suppose. Someone has to check and see if this "banshee out of the level" trick would be beneficial. It might be, I just don't know. I'll look into this level a lot more when I actually get to it.
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scurty

Joined: 30 Mar 2005
Location: Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
My brother and I actually tried this level on Coop using the same way insid did it. When we got to the teleporters I had my brother really, really find out where he could stand so if he moves an inch up, I'll teleport with him. Be critical on that, it'll save time (usually 10 seconds).

And when doign the banshee, ghost thing.. make sure you both are crossing ther loading zone at the same time otherwise one person will exit out of their vehicle when they spawn.



You know what would be a very, very nice shortcut though? Perhaps your Coop partner had eight grenades. Somehow get him under the platform where you fly u[p to with the banshee and kill him. Now you have eight grenades that you can use to do a ghost grenade bump up to the next area. It's on easy thoguh so the grenades might kill you.. or you can stand on your partners head to avoid the grenade blast. Experiment :)
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slYnki

Joined: 06 Oct 2005
Location: Dear Abby, Got a problem.

PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I must experiment in this level. And we're gonna be very precise with our shortcuts, make no mistake about it. At the moment though, we're trying to learn how to launch. I've been able to launch on top of a BBTower so far, but that was like after 20 tries. We're prepping our launching 'gosuness' if you will for when we get to T&R.

As for TB, I'm thinking of launching up to the pulse generator instead of waiting to get the banshee. Granted, that may ruin several beautiful runs, but it's still possible. I wanted to test this out though: bumping a banshee through the door, instead of a ghost. I think it may be possible. You would just have to get a banshee sideways in the door, and ram it with another banshee. Don't know if it will work, we'll test it later. And about the load zone, I have an idea of how to take advantage of that.... We shall see.

TB is far away, and for now, we must focus on PoA Very Happy
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Sly Dude

Joined: 26 Dec 2004
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario, Canada. DO NOT READ THIS FOOLS! GT: Sly Dude

PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I think CO-OP runs is a great idea.
I really would like to contribute to this but I don't have anybody to play co-op with and I don't know a whole lot of tricks. Sad
Good luck though!
- Sly Exclamation
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NOKYARD
That Delta Guy

Joined: 18 Jan 2005
Location: London Ontario Canada - 'it's a fact' Miss Universe 1982 was from London

PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
slYnki-DS wrote:
get a banshee sideways in the door, and ram it with another banshee.

don't even bother trying (you don't hear me say that very often) - people have been trying to do this since day one
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scurty

Joined: 30 Mar 2005
Location: Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 2:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I just explored every single area of the rafters on Keyes (harder to do than it sounds) and was very disappointed. I went from the beginning of the level to the black wall all along the rafters. Once I got near the black wall, my screen went black because you need ot have your Coop person standing in the general area to see. So I bumped him up and went through the level using the normal method and dropped into the blob room with him. I went ot the black wall and got a checkpoint. Now I take player one, which is on the rafters, and see if there is anythign beyond the black wall. I was disappointed when there was nothing but darkness :(

I was really hoping that I could skip the cutscene but that doesn't look possible. This could've gone under 2 minutes (no joke) on Coop if there wasn't that damn black wall, oh well, it was fun exploring.
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slYnki

Joined: 06 Oct 2005
Location: Dear Abby, Got a problem.

PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 2:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
If you and your brother had brought Keyes sub 2, I would take a plane to Pennsylvania, and begin worshipping you both.

Oh, thought I'd tell everyone, my friend is coming over to my house tomorrow in the morning, and I'm hoping to record a couple runs. Specifically, I'm interested in doing PoA and The Library on Easy. We just like those levels. Hopefully we'll be able too, if we don't get too caught up on Blood Gulch.

EDIT: 7
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scurty

Joined: 30 Mar 2005
Location: Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 3:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Has to be more than 7 page breaks :P


Also, really, you should try Keyes. Try it out in single player.. here's the easiest way to do it. Kill everythign but the friendly flood and grab the shotgun. Shoot the shield down and hop onto it. Now, take one of my runs (preferably the 2.47 or 2.50 runs) and look where I line up my plasma pistol exactly (my 2.50 run is in the highest quality so maybe that would be a good reference). When you come close to that point (remember to occasionally shoot the shield every once in awhile), shoot the shield one last time and turn aroudn and shoot the flood with the shotgun. Quickly switch to the plasma pistol and line up yourself as if you were still jumping and wait for the checkpoint.

Experiment. Trust me, it's not hard at all to master once you've foudn the right spot (it took me awhile to master but that's because I had to find a new spot all on my own because spot's spot (lol) was hard to duplicate). I find it easiest to find out where the bottom left of the reticule lines up with the one large dot on the shield when the longest part of the shield is absolutely vertical on your screen (i.e. undefined slope). You'll be suprised at how easy it is once you set yourself up with a checkpoint. Just remember to move slightly when you're in the air. Also, if you just simply jump up without moving, you'll move very slightly to the right on the shield.. this can be useful in some situations (imagine if you had the perfect spot where if you simply jumped up once you could get onto the rafters). Now practice goign backwards on the rafters. I was really annoyed when I first got up there and I fell off.. you just have to practice. It's actually very easy once you get it right.


Why am I telling you this? Because my brother has no patience and you'll probably never see a Coop run from me on this level. You want to try it on SP first because when you have the spot mastered, it will be a lot easier on Coop. The dots are so small on Coop.. even when I view them on my 60" big screen TV (I have to sit like five feet away from it just to see clearly). Seriously, think about this and try it, you'll never want to finish the level the old way ever again :P
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NOKYARD
That Delta Guy

Joined: 18 Jan 2005
Location: London Ontario Canada - 'it's a fact' Miss Universe 1982 was from London

PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Th3 Red Baron and i spent the afternoon in T&R and got the path down - it took a while to get used to those big bouncy-balls called ghosts - and we only have to work out a few details before we run it - at the broken door i just push him through - if we get good at this level we're going to try Legendary - one nice thing about co-op is the slo-motion bridge parts, sometimes lag is a good thing

Edit:
slYnki(77) wrote:
I believe you're speaking of TB, good sir Razz.

oops i meant TB


Last edited by NOKYARD on Sat Jan 28, 2006 8:11 pm; edited 2 times in total
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slYnki

Joined: 06 Oct 2005
Location: Dear Abby, Got a problem.

PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I believe you're speaking of TB, good sir Razz.
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WLT
Shakeycam Dude
Shakeycam Dude

Joined: 22 May 2004
Location: Ascension, Africa, Atlantic Ocean

PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2006 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Some levels could be alot faster in Co-OP:

Halo: Each one clears a different area. My bridge technique, saves about 2 or 3 seconds. All the fighting in the beginning is faster with two people.

Two Betrayals: Use the loading zones, can shave off 20 seconds I think.

Keyes: One player stays at the "Keyes Blob", the other one goes to the black wall.

SC: There is a pretty good shortcut in this level. If one players clicks the panel, the other one can already stand in the room above.
Saves about 10 seconds
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flechette
speedrunning ogre
speedrunning ogre

Joined: 02 Sep 2004
Location: NY! Long Island.

PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2006 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'd love to do a gravemind co-op run. :(

Anyhow, there needs to be some more co-op goodness. I'm sure the times can be brought down on just about all levels with a friend in tow. ^^

-flech
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kwinse

Joined: 06 Aug 2005
Location: Front row seats for the Halo trick bonanza!

PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2006 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
If a pair can pull off the Banshee out of Two Betrayals trick fairly quickly (it's not that hard; it's all in the timing), than one player can load the rest of the level while the other waits near the pulse generator. It would save some time on the flight back from the Final Run banshees, but at what cost?
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NOKYARD
That Delta Guy

Joined: 18 Jan 2005
Location: London Ontario Canada - 'it's a fact' Miss Universe 1982 was from London

PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2006 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
kwinse wrote:
If a pair can pull off the Banshee out of Two Betrayals trick fairly quickly (it's not that hard; it's all in the timing), than one player can load the rest of the level while the other waits near the pulse generator. It would save some time on the flight back from the Final Run banshees, but at what cost?

this is a difficult area to figure out - almost all of the tricks i thought of will not work here - the best being, take a banshee out of the level and drop it at the 'final run' cave or just past the broken door to grab later - but there is one huge problem...
we found that there are three areas -1-the battle just past the 'final run' cave, 2-the rocket-hockey rink, 3- the banshee area battle - both players must be in these areas at the same time to spawn the next area - we spent one confusing hour before realizing this - i'm not even sure the pulse generator will be there if you don't spawn all three areas

so what did i do - well i'll have to get back to you on that one, we're going to test it out now
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slYnki

Joined: 06 Oct 2005
Location: Dear Abby, Got a problem.

PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2006 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Unfortunately I didn't get any co-ops run on tape this weekend. I was hoping to do it in the morning, but my friend came later in the day with everyone else. From there, we just decided to play Multiplayer, and a grave mistake that was. slYnki: 16-0 Very Happy.

We'll get some done eventually, we're just too lazy to do it.


EDIT: Actually, I just figured out it's 23-0.... Missed a few maps @_@;

God, and all those games were Slayer Pro too...... Never give me an opportunity to snag a sniper rifle.... Ever Razz.


Last edited by slYnki on Sun Jan 29, 2006 9:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Art Vandelay
:s
:s

Joined: 23 Nov 2004
Location: :s

PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2006 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I miss doing co-op runs so much

*remembers doing the first co-op legendary outskirts run*
*remembers doing a super fast normal co-op Delta Halo*
*remembers super crazy fast easy T&R*

man, that was so much fun Smile
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NOKYARD
That Delta Guy

Joined: 18 Jan 2005
Location: London Ontario Canada - 'it's a fact' Miss Universe 1982 was from London

PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2006 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
your PoA runs were great too - just watched them last week

Edit: ok, figured out the ending for co-op TB - we push 2 ghosts through the door with a banshee

i know, that sounds like it should be in the Vehicle Collection topic, but it can be done fast enough if the players are co-ordinated enough and the time it takes to get both ghosts is easily offset by being able to run straight for the final banshee - it may even be faster than the SP method because the players can use the spawn point to move each other

we still have a few details to work out (like re-learning how to fly a ghost), and our fighting co-ordination is getting better, but we planned it so that we both know each others plays, and P1 (lead runner) is whoever happens to be in the lead -

Edit: getting through the broken door isn't faster than the SP runs - but so far it looks like it's the fastest co-op way

- something else i noticed - the flood that spawn in the cave only spawn after a number of flood are killed - i tested this theory by driving my ghost into the middle of the battle and drawing the flood away from the covies, it took about 30 seconds for them to spawn - when i killed 6 flood right away in another test they spawned immediately - the next area won't spawn until they do
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