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Whats wrong with ending.

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Postby Lord_Ne0 » Wed Nov 17, 2004 6:11 pm

First off, most of us know what mc looks like. He has red hair and freckles and is roughly 40-50 years old. Halo: The Fall of Reach states that.

Second, i dont think any one in the game listens to 343. In the first game he specifically states that installation 04 had a maximum effective range of 25, 000 light years. Later, Cortana tells MC that if activated, Halo would destroy all life in that galaxy. That isnt exactly true, because they would be in the milky way, otherwise they wouldnt be concerned because earth wouldnt be in the range. Second, the milky way is much larger than that, i think its 95, 000 or more light years. Ill have to look it up. Again in Halo 2 they all agree that Halo wipes out ALL life. Which it doesnt.

So my opinion on the rings are that they were strategically placed near flood infected areas. It would make sense. BTW in reference to Halo 1, what is the name of the new planet Halo 2 is orbiting. In Halo 1 it was Threshold, a massive brown planet. In Halo 2 it is some massive blue planet. Could that possibly have been another forrunner planet or what?.

And finally, if you read the novels you will know that MC gets infected with flood. Yes its true. In one of his fights with the flood an infection form latched on to his neck and injected something into his spine. What was to come of this...is there more to the story line that meets the eye? And what is to come of Dr. Halsey and the other 4 spartans with her. Those particular spartans were very close to MC. They escaped reach in an Oni ship as it was being glassed. So much of the story is still veiled in shadows.
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Postby Hostile » Wed Nov 17, 2004 6:17 pm

Ok IS IT CONFIRMED THERE WILL BE A HALO 3,,, If so show me the proof.
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Postby Darkiller » Wed Nov 17, 2004 7:12 pm

Have you read the third book? Because there are 5 spartans left if I understood it. There is John, Linda, Fred, Will?, and Kelly (whos with Halsey) and they all escaped fairly unscathed from the Unyielding Hierophant (except Kelly of course).

MC does get injected by a floodling but then pulls whatever it was out and I was pretty sure that he was safe from that flood.

Good observation about the halo and size of the galaxy in general.
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Postby []Dhosphorous » Wed Nov 17, 2004 7:21 pm

Actually, I believe Earth is the Ark and Humans are the Forerunner. When you go tromping throught the Library in H1, 343 states, "Im glad to see that some of them have survived to reproduce." 343 knows that MC is a biological organism, which he states later as to why he has to carry the index.

The Earth being the Ark would also explain why the Halos have Earth-like gravity and atmosphere. I think that as a final feat of engineering, the forerunner built the perfect planet to live on, while a reclaimer fired the halos. However, due to the fact that there was so many forerunner trying to escape the flood and explosion, there was not enough room on Earth, so they fought. Technology was lost because it was not spreaded down to their kin, and the species de-evolved. The foreunner probably brought millions of animals with them, which is why Earth has such a wide diversity.

This story parallels Noah's Ark from the bible.

Elites and Prophets evolve, fight with each other until the Prophets discover the Forerunner. Blah blah blah ...They want to fire the halos to become gods in the afterlife, elites dont know that halos kill, they revolt.

And I believe Gravemind is the intelligence of the flood, as posted by someone earlier. Sorta like a queen ant and her workers and soldiers.

The Forerunner kept the flood after they erraticaed them to study them, just like we keep smallpox. The flood then escaped and the Reclaimer had to fire the halos to end the first catostaphic outbreak.

*Hands a cookie to anyone that satthrough and read the entire post*
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Postby Lord_Ne0 » Wed Nov 17, 2004 9:02 pm

Yes there are 5 counting john, but i said 4 More in my post.

Also, i dont think humans are the forrunner. There is to many ways to disprove it. And when 343 is talking about reproduce he was talking about the flood wasnt he?. I never could clearly understand what he was saying in the library. I dont believe the humans are the forrunners for alot of reasons. let me begin.

First off they believe that all of the forrunners died. If they had all died then obviously they wouldnt be the humans, as per science. Evolution never takes the same path if a lifeform gets destroyed. If some of the forrunner had some survivors, and provided they were humans, earth would have had way better technology. They would have used plasma and laser weapons instead of projectiles. They would have similar looking structures found on the rings. And last but not least, if the humans are the forrunners and some did survive after the activation of the rings, wouldnt the survivors passed on stories of the great rings? Probably so, but the human race knew nothing of them. The covenant knew more, so when bungie finally wants us to know about the forrunner i believe they will be closer related to the covenant, the prophets to be exact. In the dvd that came with the limited edition they told us that the Covenant was a combination of many different intelligent lifeforms they had come together to form a superior society. The elites and prophets are not of the same race. They actually fought in a war against each other until they learned of the rings. Then they banded together for shoot for common goals.
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Postby Arteen » Wed Nov 17, 2004 9:48 pm

The Forerunner ship was not the Ark. The Ark was desgned for remote firing of the Halos. It wouldn't be a remote firing since the ship was located on a ring.
Here's a thought, but It likely has some holes in the reasoning:
I think that Earth is or contains the Ark. Regret likely brought his ship to Earth looking for a Forerunner installation, not the Human homeworld. That would explain why Regret didn't bring a large fleet. He was searching for the Ark, not the Human homeworld. The Covenant didn't realize that the Ark was the human homeworld until they arrived. Regret desperately attacked, then fled when he knew he couldn't win.
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Postby Dan » Wed Nov 17, 2004 11:05 pm

The ARK is really CARROT TOP.
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Postby Archangel » Thu Nov 18, 2004 8:00 am

Lord_Ne0: Isn´t the 25, 000 light years a maximum range per HALO installation? So if all se7en are put in a strategic pattern they would cover a lot more space, right?
What is the radius of the Milky Way? I did a quick search and found that it was roughly 100 000 lightyears. Correct?
If that is correct I see no problem in covering all that area once all se7en rings are fired simultaniously. But i might be incorrect on the radius...

And I think that the ark is Earth or on Earth and that we are somehow connected to the Forerunners.
Why?
1) 343 Guilty Spark said that he was glad to see that some had survived to reproduce. (as []Dhosphorous said) I interpret that as if he thinks that MC is a forerunner.
2) I think that't why the Covenant hasn't tried to assimilate humans. The prophets see that we are somehow connected to the Forerunners and therefore they fear us.

And i think Arteen is right about why Regret came to Earth. At lest partially. I think he might have known it was Earth (according to "Halo: First Strike" the Covenant know it's location). But I do think he came here to find Forerunner artifacts or structure of some sorts. He did make a pinpoint strike to Africa, New Mombasa. He didn't try to destroy Earth, but he knew how to get past the defenses, he wasn't really ill-prepared. So he was after something, probably the Ark, though it might be that he didn't know exactly what the Ark does.

I think the Ark is somewhere in Africa (probably new Mombasa), it is after all considered "The cradle of human life"...

That's my two cents... Sorry for the long post...
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Postby logan » Thu Nov 18, 2004 9:37 am

Lord_Ne0 wrote:Also, i dont think humans are the forrunner. There is to many ways to disprove it. And when 343 is talking about reproduce he was talking about the flood wasnt he?. I never could clearly understand what he was saying in the library. I dont believe the humans are the forrunners for alot of reasons.


If the Humans aren't somehow descended from forrunners how do you explain John's magic "touch" If you read 'The flood' then you hear how he instinctively knows how to activate the lightbridge and the map room, yada yada. Also in the fall of reach the Spartans find the covanant technology "familliar" (when Kelly and Fred drive the Wraiths they instinctively know what buttons to use and which levers to press.)

Also how do you explain the simmilarites of ancient architecture to the structures on the halos. I know that the structures on delta halo reminded me strongly of Mayan temples and the like. In regards to your comments on Covenant technology you made another mistake the Covenant aren't technologically advanced, its repeated constantly that their technology is imitative not innovative, we know that the prophets investigate forerunner ruins so that they can gain new technologies. The Humans also design Mjolinir which 343 designs as a "combat skin" and suggests that it is only a mark V and suggests upgrading to at least a mark XII. The humans design a suit which Guilty spark instantly recognises as forerunner, despite the fact that the only part of the suit derived from forerunner tec is the sheilding which has been improved by the humans.

In regard to your comments about the limited editon DVD if you watch the deleted scenes. There is, a long cutscene which explains how the covenant was formed, however mabye you misunderstood, the Prophets discover the exsistence of the rings, and evidence of their "great journey". What if originally the Prophets used this as an excuse to stop the war against the elites (which they would obviously lose) so that they could join together. But they in fact fabricated the idea of "The Great Journey" and over the centuries the Prophets themselves began to believe their own lies which would explain why Truth is so set on activating the Halos.
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Postby Draco7182 » Thu Nov 18, 2004 1:02 pm

This is what i think what happened-
The Forerunners found the flood and was quickly overwelmed. They planned on firing the halos knowing what it would do. They built a ship to have a chance of survival. They found a planet that is out of range of the Halos or in a stragetic place where it is unaffected. Instead of firing all Halos individually they have activate one and then all fire remotely from, of course, from the ARK. The ship IMO is the Ark but can only fire the Halos at a location on Earth. When the forerunners they fired the Halos.

They didn't bring much of their technology. They lived off the land. I think some of the Forerunners left in the ARK to search for other planets. They found a couple planets but didn't live for very long after but they left info about the Halos. Example: in The Fall of Reach , the covenant were studying some rocks in a human museum on Sigma Octanus IV. They left the planet or planets and died while in outer space. After drifting in outer space the covenant found the ARK adapting the technology they have found to their own. Learning of the Halos they viewed it as a spirital journey. Building a city around the ARK using the engines as power. Going around seeking clues about the Halos, glassing planets and obliterating the inhabitants as they go along.

*phew* my head hurts now. This is just my SPEC. Discuss
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The ARK, etc.

Postby MasterChef » Thu Nov 18, 2004 3:22 pm

Just my two cents.

The Ark: The ark is not the PLANET Earth, but rather something that was hidden underneath New Mombasa. When the Covenant Cruiser did the 'light jump' or whatever it was called, it tore down the city. They made landfall there for one reason, to uncover the ark.

Gravemind: Gravemind is the center of the nervous system that is The Flood. It is a collective of all it's parts, and comes to learn many things from it's many pieces. The most clear evidence for Gravemind being related to the flood is the re-animated Prophet that is brought to MC and The Arbiter when they are being held by Gravemind.

The Forerunners: Most likely a proto-being. I think if they are, as someone already mentioned, a race that seeded other places in the galaxy (or universe?) as experiments, and one of those experiments was The Flood. Perhaps the Covenant and the Humans have an ancestor in common in the form of the Forerunners.
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Postby Greg687 » Thu Nov 18, 2004 5:16 pm

A few counter points.
In H1...343 talks about the installation being built to study the flood, and he was happy that some (flood) had managed to survive.
When 343 is talking about upgrading to MC, he is talking about his combat SKILLS. Not his armor.
In H2, the prophet dying from the flood (forgot his name) answers MCs question (where is your buddy going) with "to finish what we started". The prophets do know that the ark is on earth. Also, africa is the birthplace of the human race, right? oldest known civilizations? Maybe humans are descended from the forerunner? all the oracles call humans "reclaimers", even Ms Keyes "be gentle. this reclaimer is more fragile than the other" (when Tartarus is trying to force her to activate Halo...

Anyway, this is fun. Cant wait til H3 for the answers....

Greg
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Postby Tar Ecthelion » Thu Nov 18, 2004 6:01 pm

Hostile wrote:Ok IS IT CONFIRMED THERE WILL BE A HALO 3,,, If so show me the proof.


I'm still playing catchup on this thread but here you can see an anouncement by Microsoft about Halos 2 & 3 being in the works at the time of the writing...

-Tar
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Postby Lord_Ne0 » Thu Nov 18, 2004 6:22 pm

Well, lets get started here.

Yes, if all seven of the rings fired they would most definatly wipe out the galaxy. Even though 343 said THIS instalation had a 25, 000 light year range. The others could be more powerful/weaker. SO our galaxy is roughly 100, 000 cubic light years, as per science. Reality isnt flat, it is 3 dementional, so it must be in cubic. 7 25, 000 cubic ly blasts (if they are all the same strenght), would udderly destroy the galaxy. But there is a problem. That was the only ring being activated.

The reclaimers. Sure, 343 refers to mc and keyes as reclaimers. Maybe only organic lifeforms can be the reclaimer. If so why doesnt he call the covenant reclaimers. Or better yet, the other marines. Maybe the first person to touch it is the reclaimer. THink about it. MC was the first to touch the first index, he was the reclaimer. Keyes was the first to touch the second, but it got stolen. 343 did NOT refer to the prophet as a reclaimer, that is why i think the first to touch it falls in place.

The forerunner. True, the spartans have an amazing ability to control forerunner AND covenant technology. That is why you cant automatically assume they are realated to forerunner. I myself dont have a way to explain the spartans ability to control alien technology, but i dont think it has a direct relation to the forerunner.

The Mjolnir armor. Yes MC was only wearing a Mark V armor by 343 standards. But that does not mean he recognized it as forerunner technology. Mabey 343 just has a set of standards of what makes armor fall under certain classes. I believe he also stated that the marines were wearing even lesser armor. So if MC is only wearing mark V and mark XII was the standard to battle flood, then the forerunners were tough mofo's.

Other than that my mind is blank right now. I may re-read the novels and play the library level over and listen closer.
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Re: The ARK, etc.

Postby Tar Ecthelion » Thu Nov 18, 2004 6:23 pm

MasterChef wrote:The Ark: The ark is not the PLANET Earth, but rather something that was hidden underneath New Mombasa. When the Covenant Cruiser did the 'light jump' or whatever it was called, it tore down the city. They made landfall there for one reason, to uncover the ark.


This can be explained fairly easily... the reason for the Incursion there is due to the Artifact that was found near Troy before it was glassed. It was taken to earth, and while in transit it created both spacial and temporal anomalies before, durring, and after the jump the Apocolypso took to get away from the covenent (breaking the law and jumping straight to Earth).

Where did these crazy Ideas come from!? Bungie, Microsoft, and a group called 4orty2wo... It was explained over several months in the form of the ARG ILoveBees. And the fruit of our labor (many hours of Audio from the weeks preceeding the attack on earth) can be found here. Please try to show some respect for the people who managed to finish the ARG as it was a hell of a ride with some crazy fun. Thanks Bungie and 4orty2wo! And they have had more then a few Halo "fan boys" come through and bad mouth them, all the while taking the fruits of their labor.

Listen to the wave files starting from the begining otherwise parts of it wont mean anything. And the end won't be as good. There is so much more that you won't see or hear in the audio but I couldn't hope to share it all with you. The momment at the end with Durga remembering from both "whens" tries to hint on it but really can't do it justice.

Enjoy,
-Tar
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